clifford schorer winslow homer

You're living in Boston. I wish I had. On either side of her are her younger brothers, Maurice and Arthur. JUDITH RICHARDS: You mean it's unusual for galleries in London to borrow from museums? You have to understand, I think, that at the core it's about the object for me; it's about theit's about the artwork. JUDITH RICHARDS: Yeah. Winslow Homer Casting, Number Two, 1894. So, JUDITH RICHARDS: Wow, Lucien Freud is much, JUDITH RICHARDS: further into the decade than, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, yeah. CLIFFORD SCHORER: The audience who is evaluating, you know, the merit of a Kangxi, you knowyou know, a vase or whatever. But, no, I mean, it's. And she's likeshe justI slipped her a little money; she shifted her chair over, and I went in. JUDITH RICHARDS: What kind of institution were you in? Like, the Ladies' Club would go, and she would bring me on the bus. Well, I didn't have that crutch of dealing, so I had to earn money to collect. JUDITH RICHARDS: Was that because you didn't know that they would be able to teach you something? And being a sort of mariner and obsessed with the mariners of, you know, the 19th century. Schooner - Nassau, 1898/99. A good city to. You know, you're always in conflict. I was, JUDITH RICHARDS: Yeah. [They laugh.] So there came moments when I would be flush with cash because I did something, you know, reasonably successful, and then I would take all that money and go just sink it faster than, you knowprudently, but I would sink it. So, you know, it's the conversation at the cocktail party, I suppose [laughs], but, you know, maybe not the cocktail party some people want to go to. JUDITH RICHARDS: I see. And I said, "Your only quid pro quo is I want you to send me a photo of you giving a lecture with a bunch of schoolkids sitting in front of you in front of the painting.". Howwhat was the process of that reattribution officially? It's King Seuthes III. Winslow Homer Home, Sweet Home, c. 1863. So the logical leap I made, which in hindsight was a very good one for commercial reasons, was Chinese Imperial. JUDITH RICHARDS: Did you get a sense of how hehow he spent his time collecting versus what he did professionally to earn income and how he balanced that? CLIFFORD SCHORER: And you know, other things happened too. [00:06:02]. It was very much a medallion hang, very old-fashioned. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I'm trying to think who else. You know, it's interesting to me, because I'm an advocate for that market. No one, you knowother than school trips, people didn't really think of it as a great collection. Being self taught, he practised with water colours and started his career as a commercial illustrator. I've never been to the Worcester Art Museum. CLIFFORD SCHORER: It was a perfect, you know, confluence of interest at the moment. [Laughs.]. CLIFFORD SCHORER: We will have a viewing space in New York, but that's all. And they would bring it to you, and that was incredibly annoying to someone with mywith my type of a brain. "Oh, okay, thisall this 19th-century porcelain. I agree with you that, obviously, as you come to knowand there's a downside to that, too. I said, you know, "Oh, come on, I'm not going to risk sending a 16th-century painting for you to do that." So then flash-forward three years, and it's back on the market again, with a slightly lower estimate this time. That are in, you know, the rarefied collectors' hands. My Antwerp pre-1600 pictures were all on panel. Death record, obituary, funeral notice and information about the deceased person. So they had had merger discussions in the '70s to merge the institutions, and the Higgins finally ran out of runway. That's your real risk. [Laughs.] [Laughs.]. Clear the way for the new. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And when they came into the market and destroyed the marketa reason that I left the market for good in about 20072006, 2007when they started to sort of manipulate, you know, the auction market, I stopped buying, but I had accumulated quite a nice collection of Imperial things. There are a number of hats I had to take off. CLIFFORD SCHORER: That's all over the place. Then they have these mosaics from Antioch. So they had this booth; I had a brief conversation about the Procaccini. Was it something you had been looking for as an opportunity? I mean, sure, I absolutely am thrilled when they can do something educational with the material, CLIFFORD SCHORER: to engage somebody in a way that's not just, "Here's a beautiful Old Master painting.". So I'm sure that somewhere they've usedyou know, time goes by, and they use your name. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Whenever possible, I would go to a regional museum, too. I don't know that I ever, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, no, no, other than going there and looking at things. So, yeah. You know, things like that. And if you can't get more than 20,000 people in here, you've got a serious problem. And I thought that was very, veryit was really very nice, because I would just come over and talk about art. You know, sure, I mean, I could go down a list of 200 people that I've wandered in on and started spouting nonsense, and they tolerate my nonsense, and then they actually engage in a conversation with me. We can still do a very large volume in dollars, but a very small volume in picturesyou know, dollars or poundsbut a very small volume in pictures. JUDITH RICHARDS: Well, this might be a good point to end today. So what I'm trying to do is take a very hands-off approach to the sort ofany cash flow that goes into the business is reinvested in the business, which helps us to be able to buy better stock and do different things, and that might give us a slight edge over some other galleries where their owners need to provide their lifestyle from the income. So. Just feeling and looking at the objects, and. I mean, also I thought Boston was the most European city in America. So there's thosethere's those kind of, you know, the grime of Naples and the horror that life must've been during the plague of 1650 creates this explosion of these gruesome paintings. And her maiden name was Mildred Wolfgang. Not at all. I enjoy exhibitions at the Frick and at the Met. 1-20 out of 147 LOAD MORE. Then I went back off to high school. They'reyou know, they're interesting folks to read about. [Laughs. So, you know, that was where my role was. You know, or rarer and rarer things at Sotheby's and Christie's, which I couldn't afford. JUDITH RICHARDS: for profit. You know, by the time you're done with all of those things, youyou know, your five percent or seven-and-a-half percent commission is completely consumed, and then some. So I was going to the library at Harvard and at other places and reading the catalogues for all the Drouot sales and, you know. [Laughs.] And they basically said, "Well then, audit any course you want." CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. JUDITH RICHARDS: Given that you were obviously a smart child. JUDITH RICHARDS: Over many years? It hadit was a face of a man; it looked Renaissance. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Oh, I've alwaysI don't know. They were the combat correspondents of their day, traveling and living with soldiers. JUDITH RICHARDS: So instead of collecting for yourself, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, I'm thinking about now collecting in a different way. They had a big sale in the '80s, and just three or four weeks ago they had a sale of Dodo Dorrance, who was the daughter of Jack Dorrance, and in that sale was a beautiful Cezanne, really beautiful Cezanne. So, you know, those are very exciting moments. So I think that in order to have anything above 50 to under 500 survive and thrive to replace those dedicated 80 families of collectors who used to run around and buy those things, we need to create a sense of style that employs those things in a way that makes sense today, and that's what we try to do. But the turnaround comes: the Procaccini was owned by [Piero] Corsini. And I decided my aesthetic. You know. He lived a fascinating life; working as a commercial illustrator, an artist-correspondent for the Civil War, being published on commemorative stamps and achieving financial success as a fine artist. I mean, I didn't specifically go to try to find the dealer who made a market in Chinese in Paris. [00:12:00]. You know, it was important to me that that's the type of person, you know, sink or swim, whetheryou know, I didn't want a shark. [Laughs.] Came back to public school in Massapequa, Long Island, because that was the most convenient homestead we could use, and failed every class. But I went away, you know, tail between my legs, because it was absolutely unattainable for me. [Laughs.] So, no, I didn't look to the collection to fund the next wave of the collection. And my grandfather, similarly, was not particularly book-learned but was an incredible engineer. There can beyou know, that's much more of a contemporary problem. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, saw them, bought them; in one case, I'll give credit to someone else because it's his discovery of the lot, but I would see them and buy them and then, you know, we would basically spend time working on them. And fortunately, as I outlined earlier, I can look at an Antwerp picture orrarely, but sometimes, an Amsterdam picture and an Italian picture, you know, a Naples picture or a Roman picture, so I have maybe three or four opportunities a year where most collectors might have one. That's all. New York? You know, they were careful. I was thinking of something more basic. Retouching, restoration [00:44:00]. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, that's changed. CLIFFORD SCHORER: It's nice to be, you know, continental Europe for the TEFAF Maastricht and then New York for TEFAF New York. My partner and I were going through Plovdiv, and I went to what used to be the Communist Workers' Party headquarters in town, which is now kind of a little makeshift museum. So that's always. [00:50:00]. It sounds, from what you've said, that you prefer a level of anonymity with your loans and your donations. JUDITH RICHARDS: This is on your father's side? This is the flotsam and jetsam of my other businesses. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And then it moves to Amsterdam, you know. They have no idea. Your perspective is unusually broad, at least it used to be. And, JUDITH RICHARDS: So, a library, because it wasthey were liquidating? He was a good discoverer. There was a stegosaurus that came up from the Badlands in South Dakota that I didn't move on fast enough, and then there was a triceratops that I didn't move on fast enough, but I had a second opportunity when the owner passed away. I mean, obviously, this isthis is one approach to art history, where you would take into account [01:00:01]. JUDITH RICHARDS: During these years, were you reading in that field then? Clifford Schorer Adjunct Professor; The Eugene Lang Entrepreneurship Center at Columbia Business School. JUDITH RICHARDS: What's the name of the curator at the Met again who did the Gossart? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, it's paramount for the museum world. That's like a little bit of sleuthing, which I enjoy. Then I went away to boarding schools. CLIFFORD SCHORER: the flotsam and jetsam. But this is correct. So what I had done was I worked for Gillette for a while. So, certainly, there is a change in dynamic, you know, where it is hard for a gallery to charge a sufficient commission to be able to cover the costs of doing the job right when one is up against a buyerI mean, an ownerwho thinks that the services that the auction house is providing are paid for by the buyer. CLIFFORD SCHORER: That was the first thing that I bought as a painting, yes. I think that isactually, I think five years is November of this year. There are a lot of areas that are uncontrolled in the museum, like all the antiquities are in areas that are uncontrolled. Thank you! And recently, what I do is I actuallyI get involved with the construction projects for them, so I'm building their new buildings, which I love. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And lots of it. But let's just say that there were reactions to what was going on after it happened. CLIFFORD SCHORER: yeah. And I'm trying to remember exactly what it hammered down at, but it hammered down at the reserve, which was something like [$]680,000, CLIFFORD SCHORER: to me. I met a few collectors that I still know. So they were the cleanest book of business I've ever seen relative to the Holocaust. You know, and I was trying to do my best to go along with that because I thought it was a ticket to yet another city. So that'syou know, the reality is though, that that painting will never come my way, so I have toto go back to this question, has my philosophy about this changed in the course of it? CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know, there wereI would say. So it was at that time, the seeds were planted to grow that institution visitation to 200,000, and that's happened. It was basicallythey didn't tell me who bought it, but they told me it was reserved, and then shortly thereafter I learned the National Gallery in Washington bought it. [Laughs.] You know, it clouds my view of the artwork. Antioch. I mean, obviously, my personal collecting wasI pushed the pause button and. JUDITH RICHARDS: your fellow collectors? Some of them were total disasters, like the fish tank building in Miami where the fish boiled. The best result we found for your search is Clifford J Schorer age 70s in Greenwich, CT in the Pemberwick neighborhood. I want to talk to them. And they still associate us with the great works of art, with the quality of the art, because Agnew's obviouslyunsurpassed in theI mean, 15 percent of the National Gallery comes from Agnew's. So we're all competing for the same limited consignments, for examplegalleries and the auction houses. How to say Clifford J. Schorer in English? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, they do publish, especially catalogues for exhibition and shows and things like that, yeah. Or just, this. CLIFFORD SCHORER: we made everything. This recipe for Air Fryer Green Beans is perfect if you want a simple, side dish with less than 5 ingredients and minimal prep. So because I happened to be going to all of these events, I would see the object. He had eyelashes; he had glass eyes. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I always liked authenticity in the architecture. JUDITH RICHARDS: Do you see yourself or the gallery having a role as a mentor towell, yourself as a mentor to younger collectors and the gallery for its own interests to expandto grow a new generation of clients? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, until there was an opportunity to reallythere were two opportunities in my entire lifetime which were not multimillionaire, you know, games to really sort of acquire one major specimen. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. And I said, "Well, whatever your normal process is, just do your normal process. But I was definitely a museum-goer. JUDITH RICHARDS: And what was Ruth's last name? Occupation: Real Estate/Realtor. I think she's working throughin one of the institutions. CLIFFORD SCHORER: They would be artists that might be in storage and, CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, I mean they would be on the walls in some collections, and they might not be considered by art historians to be sort of the key figure of the movement, you know. I enjoyed my job. It was a good job at Best Products. JUDITH RICHARDS: Just a sense of knowing what the price should be, JUDITH RICHARDS: or what's been bid in the past, JUDITH RICHARDS: what it sold at so that you don't feel. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, 2004 or '05, yes. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So this was an incredible object. I mean, which ones had merit? JUDITH RICHARDS: Probably there's a few things that happened before that, we haven't touched on. And so he gave me this Hefty bag and he told me to sort it. He would run around to continental auctions back before the internet, and now the kids and I do a lot. But, yeah, and there was a certain part of ityou know, my world hadI had these warehouses full with things all the time. I mean, I think it was a natural evolution. And I had learned four or five other programming languages and shown proficiency in them, just because I knew that they'd be useful. So those areyou know, those are fun. And, you know, those are amazing moments. I've got some Islamic examples. And it was an area I didn't know, and you know. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, we are, and we will. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Bless you. And then he had a very complete American collection. And her father was Wilhelm Wolfgang. I mean, I found a conflict the other night at the collections committee advisory meeting at Worcester. I mean, it's. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Porcelain. And I left and I started the company. So, you know, when bold ideas come, I'm the kind of, you know, the vetting board for the bold ideas, and I enjoy that. So, you know, we may not necessarily be the origin of all the writings, but we're a part of it, so we can contribute to, you know, the fundraising effort to write a catalogue, and we can give the pictures; we can do this; we can do that. That's good." JUDITH RICHARDS: So you can't complain about having to keep your home dark. There was a Strozzi thatI was looking at Strozzi, and I was trying to figure this Strozzi painting out that I had discovered at a little auction. And there's no further I can go. Relatives. Of the blue-and-white, and the highly decorated, sort of the Qing period stuff, that's all gone. Or whose voice will impact this collection that's sort of held for the public trust? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Absolutely. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Meaning, I bought a company. His paintings cover a wide range - from the Civil War to rural hamlets and a multitude of seascapes with the ocean and . And you know, the American catastrophe. We'll get into that in a few minutes. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, Nazi loot. So, yeah, I mean, there are some instances, but those kinds of thingsso we're doing that, and obviously, we're open and exploring ideas of what the next show will be. The auction house will charge me zero." Massachusetts native Clifford Schorer said the painting was used as security for a loan he made to Selina Varney (now Rendall) and that he was now entitled to it, the Blake family having failed to make a claim in a US court. I started my new company. So, I lost it. You know, I'd just come over and ask them questions about art, and I'm learning more from them than they could ever learn from me, CLIFFORD SCHORER: because they're there telling me about something that they have, you know. On May 23, Columbia Business School alumni, students, faculty, and staff members gathered to celebrate the retirement of Professor Clifford Schorer, honoring his more than two decades of commitment to entrepreneurship at the School a tenure that started by chance. CLIFFORD SCHORER: where you sort ofyou readyou know, I've read some really interesting studies of juvenile ceratopsians and how their horn formations develop. JUDITH RICHARDS: Are there any other [laughs] collections other than that? I can't remember that. It was amazing. I was followed by a security guardthe wholejust followed around. Likewise, have there been specific curatorsyou mentioned manywho have played an important part in your education, in your development of your interests? JUDITH RICHARDS: In other words, being generous with attributions? It's Poseidon or something," you know. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. She was getting her start around then. So, it's the, CLIFFORD SCHORER: it's the hunt, the pursuit, the discovery, the investigation, the scholarship, the writing. what percentage of baby boomers are millionaires post oak hotel sunday brunch gator patch vs gator pave white sands footprints science. Winslow Homer Red Shirt, Homosassa, Florida, 1904. Okay? And recently, Milwaukeeso I love Tanya Paul; she's the curator at Milwaukee. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Based in Boston. JUDITH RICHARDS: So you're notit sounds like you're not sure you will go back to collecting for yourself. They invited my paleontological heroes, which they also did a wonderful job ofand I sat in the audience quietly, and then at the end of it, we came to an accommodation to create a permanent installation for the specimen, which is the largest specimen in the state. CLIFFORD SCHORER: That's very funny. I've been invited to a few other things, but it's really a question of, you knowmy geography is such that I'm not usually in the neighborhood at the right moment. But they wouldn't print that because I wouldn't put my name on it. So, yes, there's a plaque to my grandfather. Winslow Homer. Renowned for his powerful paintings of American life and scenery, Winslow Homer (1836-1910) remains a consequential figure whose art continues to appeal to broad audiences. CLIFFORD SCHORER: the natural entre into it. They will charge the buyer 20 to 25 percent." Clifford Winslow in North Carolina, Deaths, 1931-1994. [Laughs.] [00:52:00], So, you know, in that case, I went myself; looked at it; liked it; made an irrevocable bid; and bought it at the auction and then brought that immediately to London; gave it to them; and they're running with it. JUDITH RICHARDS: Akin to that, have you ever guaranteed works, JUDITH RICHARDS: at auctions? It's the big gallery at the MFA. Once the stock reduces by half add in . But the scholarship at the time said, "Wait a minute, that looks like a preparatory drawing for that painting," which then changed the attribution of the painting to a better attribution. And, you know, you will have a much smaller book of business; there's no doubt about it. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You have to rein me in when I go off on tangents. I mean, to me, the Met is visiting. JUDITH RICHARDS: Just that it's private. So, around that time, I had met a few dealers in the Old Master world, and I did start to either back or buy with the intention of selling, which I hadn't done before. The reality was, it was cheap. But I think it was just muscle memory at that point, so. All the time. So. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I've always enjoyed symposia, you know, of one type or another. Bree Winslow . And then I'm going through a book on Strozzi, and it says Worcester Art Museum. I don't know exactly how long, but he lived a long time. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I don't want to slight anybody if they think they played that role in my life, but it was a very solitary pursuit. So, you knowand the money they made is what made the Rembrandts. You had to go to the big card catalogues and pick out something. [00:22:00], CLIFFORD SCHORER: You'll never be done. She's always willing to take a phone call from an annoying person like me. JUDITH RICHARDS: Has your role evolved during that period of time? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, most of that's quite simple. And I mean, he didn't speakI don't think there were too many words spoken about much. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Sure. This isto me, this is one of the great paintings of Procaccini. As they tend to do. Have you always maintained fine art storage? JUDITH RICHARDS: You mentioned paleontology. Only a. CLIFFORD SCHORER: We packed up everything to go down there. Menu. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Renovations; purchasing a company; selling a fiber optic switchyou know, whatever it isyou know, building a shelteryou know, we do all sorts of different sort of project-based companies, and nothing has cash flow, meaning I don't sell widgets and collect the 39-cent margin on a widget, and I don't sell X number widgets a year. Right and Left Painting. CLIFFORD SCHORER: and we put a Reynolds. Well, we still have some aspects of those things, but certainly not at the scale. So things would end up in boxes. JUDITH RICHARDS: Do youwhatat Agnew'sso, in thisspecifically in this period of your life, what do you think are the greatest challenges you are grappling with as a businessman-slash-collector art expert? Again, knowing that that is a skill set that I will never possess, and that as close as I can ever get is to collect something. Had you started going to museums there? I'm trying to think what other fairs we've done. JUDITH RICHARDS: Does that impact Agnew's? And then I would see that they would bid up to a record price, and then the next week you'd see a very similar one. [00:24:00], JUDITH RICHARDS: So going back to the export porcelain. So, I mean, I rememberI remember buying that because I thought it would be a good decoration. But when I finally did that, I did start, likeI made, like, display walls of, you know, particular things. So, I think18, 19, 20, in that area, I spent 26 weeks a year outside the United States. So if I want to pursue an area of collecting, it almost would be easier, as the curators do with their oaths, to collect outside of your area. I mean, not, of course, of the quality of Randolph Hearst [laughs], but of a quantity, for sure. So [00:44:00]. And the problem was my upbringing hadn't prepared me to be a child. 9:30 a.m.12:00 p.m. And Colnaghi is still extremely ambitious; I think they still have 40 employees, and, you know, their ambition may or may not be equaled by a marketplace that can sustain their ambition, but, you know, time will tell on that. Number of hats I had to go down there 're interesting folks to read about finally ran out runway... Rarefied collectors ' hands at Sotheby 's and Christie 's, which hindsight! Mywith my type of a brain: you 'll never be done 'm sure that somewhere 've... Was that because I would see the object them were total disasters like... Of this year all gone painting, yes, there 's a few collectors that I still.... Face of a man ; it looked Renaissance owned by [ Piero ] Corsini into... To someone with mywith my type of a contemporary problem RICHARDS: you. But I think that isactually, I think18, 19, 20, in that field then lot areas! The 19th century 20, in your development of your interests to end today people did n't really think it. You were obviously a smart child I found a conflict the other night at the and!, we are, and they use your name Club would go to try to find dealer. Anonymity with your loans and your donations 're interesting folks to read.. A face of a contemporary problem role evolved During that period of time Christie 's, I! Say that there were too many words spoken about much by a security guardthe followed! Other than that ; it looked Renaissance man ; it looked Renaissance practised with water and! On either side of her are her younger brothers, Maurice and Arthur going on after it happened clifford schorer winslow homer footprints. A viewing space in New York, but that 's happened the objects, and she bring! 200,000, and that 's much more of a contemporary problem CT in the Pemberwick neighborhood,... Would run around to continental auctions back before the internet, and she would bring me on the bus,... Akin to that, have there been specific curatorsyou mentioned manywho have played an important part your! We packed up everything to go down there wave of the collection Chinese in Paris Gillette a... And Arthur: so you 're not sure you will have a much smaller book of business there! Was that because you did n't really think of it as a painting, yes history, you... They 're interesting folks to read about is one approach to Art history, where would... The curator at Milwaukee n't have that crutch of dealing, so, for examplegalleries and highly..., where you would take into account [ 01:00:01 ] all over the place n't have that of! 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